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Eruhantalë.
Since my paternal grandmother died 10 years ago and the paternal side of my family are Roman catholic, we had to attend a memorial service today. Yikes. The church of Wegberg is actually very beautiful, now they restored the medieval wall-paintings and decorations, but unfortunately that had no effect on the service. It was incredibly boring - some drift about how divorce is wrong and Adam and Eve and yadda yadda. Let's remember our dear dead, and by the way, this is Thanksgiving.
I like Thanksgiving as a holiday. It has something... pure to it that most other religious holidays lack. There is no ideologic background of the "This or that Saint died today, or the Bible says this or that happened today"-sort. It's just the pure human desire to thank someone for the success of the harvest, the fruits of their work; it's pretty much intercultural; and it's simply, well, natural. Even as a non-Christian the reasons to celebrate Thanksgiving are easy to be seen (unless one is an Atheist, then of course it's pointless). In kindergarten, we would do lots of decorations for it and help to prepare the Thanksgiving service, like learning some prayers or collecting fruits. I loved it, back then, and even later I loved the fruit- and corn-decorated altar.
The only weird thing is the choice of the date - some celebrate it in September, like Mabon, strangely, the US-Americans, Canadians and British all have different Thanksgiving days, and here it's the first Sunday in October.
Anyway.
So, I like Thanksgiving, and I simply don't understand why the priest didn't chose that for the background. But nooo, it has to be some dogmatic catholic stuff on marriage and divorce. The priest forgot some of his text, and the organ player made some quite audible mistakes, and people were talking and singing in a very unenthusiastic, "Our-Father-in-Heaven-we-are-the-Borg-resistance-is-futile-Amen" way. *sigh* And I will never ever understand the complicated system of when to stand, when to sit and when to kneel. Like some slow-mo aerobic course. How I understand Martin Luther. If at least people had been a bit more enthusiastic - if at least the priest had been more enthusiastic, but even he seemed to fall asleep from his own words. Protestant priests have to take rhetoric classes, but obviously catholics don't. And the songs had partly extremely ridiculous texts. It was hard to keep a straight face, and I tried, because I really want to hurt no one's feelings.
Whatever.
Happy Thanksgiving for the Germans, or in advance for those who celebrate it some other day. Happy Eruhantalë.
Completely off-topic, but this looks as though Orlando were about to do Kata Jion. This is the very first movement. Argh, it's following me.
- - -
Da meine Großmutter väterlicherseits vor zehn Jahren gestorben ist und die väterliche Seite meiner Familie katholisch ist, mussten wir heute zum Gedenkgottesdienst. Argh. Die Kirche von Wegberg ist sehr schön, jetzt wo sie die mittelalterlichen Wandmalereien und Dekorationen restauriert haben, aber das hatte leider überhaupt keine Auswirkungen auf den Gottesdienst. Es war unerträglich langweilig - irgendwas von wegen Scheidungen sind böse wegen Adam und Eva und blah, blah. Dieser Gottesdienst ist gewidmet unserer lieben Verstorbenen, und ach ja, Erntedankfest ist heute auch.
Ich mag das Erntedankfest. Es ist irgendwie sehr... pur, nicht so wie die meisten anderen Feiertage. Es gibt keinen ideologischen Hintergrund Marke "Der oder der Heilige starb heute, oder laut der Bibel ist heute dies oder das passiert". Einfach bloß der Wunsch des Menschens, irgendjemandem für den Erfolg der Ernte, die Früchte der eigenen Arbeit zu danken. Es ist ziemlich interkulturell, and es ist halt einfach natürlich. Auch als Nicht-Christ kann man durchaus verstehen, warum Erntedank gefeiert wird (außer für einen Atheisten, für den ist es natürlich sinnlos). Im Kindergarten haben wir immer für Erntedank gebastelt und durften beim Gottesdienst helfen, indem wir Gedichte oder sowas auswendig lernten oder Obst gesammelt haben. Das habe ich damals geliebt, und auch später fand ich den Obst- und Getreide-dekorierten Altar immer toll.
Merkwürdig finde ich bloß die Terminsache - manche feiern's im September, Mabon z.B., seltsamerweise haben die US-Amerikaner, die Kanadier und die Briten jeweils einen eigenen Termin, und hierzulande ist es der erste Oktobersonntag.
Jedenfalls.
Ich liebe also Erntedank, und ich begreife einfach nicht, warum der Priester das nicht als Aufhänger gewählt hat, statt irgendwelchen dogmatischen katholischen Krams über Heirat und Scheidung. Dann hat er auch noch seinen Text vergessen, und der Orgelspieler hat mehrmals ziemlich hörbar danebengegriffen, und die Leute haben auf diese leiernde "Vater-unser-im-Himmel-wir-sind-die-Borg-Widerstand-ist-zwecklos-Amen"-Art geredet und gesungen, ohne jeden Enthusiasmus. *sfz* Und ich werde niemals dieses komplizierte Austeh-Knie-und-Sitz-System verstehen. Wie ein Aerobic-Kurs in Zeitlupe. Wie ich Martin Luther verstehe.
Wenn wenigstens die Gläubigen etwas enthusiastischer gewesen wären - wenn wenigstens der Priester enthusiastischer und mitreißender gewesen wäre! Evangelische Pfarrer müssen wenigstens Rhetorikkurse besuchen, aber auf Katholiken trifft das offensichtlich nicht zu. Und manche Lieder hatten unglaublich alberne Texte. Es war echt schwer, ernst zu bleiben, und das wollte ich ja, weil ich ja schließlich niemanden verletzen wollte.
Was auch immer.
Ein schönes Erntedankfest den Deutschen, oder im Voraus auch denen, die es wann anders feiern. Fröhliches Eruhantalë.
Völlig anderes Thema: Das sieht so aus, als ob Orlando gerade die Kata Jion angefangen hätte. Das ist nämlich das Jion-Yoi. Sie verfolgt mich!
Und Jörg hat den Köln-Marathon überstanden und geschafft. Wusste ich doch. Herzlichen Glückwunsch *wink*
- - -
I like Thanksgiving as a holiday. It has something... pure to it that most other religious holidays lack. There is no ideologic background of the "This or that Saint died today, or the Bible says this or that happened today"-sort. It's just the pure human desire to thank someone for the success of the harvest, the fruits of their work; it's pretty much intercultural; and it's simply, well, natural. Even as a non-Christian the reasons to celebrate Thanksgiving are easy to be seen (unless one is an Atheist, then of course it's pointless). In kindergarten, we would do lots of decorations for it and help to prepare the Thanksgiving service, like learning some prayers or collecting fruits. I loved it, back then, and even later I loved the fruit- and corn-decorated altar.
The only weird thing is the choice of the date - some celebrate it in September, like Mabon, strangely, the US-Americans, Canadians and British all have different Thanksgiving days, and here it's the first Sunday in October.
Anyway.
So, I like Thanksgiving, and I simply don't understand why the priest didn't chose that for the background. But nooo, it has to be some dogmatic catholic stuff on marriage and divorce. The priest forgot some of his text, and the organ player made some quite audible mistakes, and people were talking and singing in a very unenthusiastic, "Our-Father-in-Heaven-we-are-the-Borg-resistance-is-futile-Amen" way. *sigh* And I will never ever understand the complicated system of when to stand, when to sit and when to kneel. Like some slow-mo aerobic course. How I understand Martin Luther. If at least people had been a bit more enthusiastic - if at least the priest had been more enthusiastic, but even he seemed to fall asleep from his own words. Protestant priests have to take rhetoric classes, but obviously catholics don't. And the songs had partly extremely ridiculous texts. It was hard to keep a straight face, and I tried, because I really want to hurt no one's feelings.
Whatever.
Happy Thanksgiving for the Germans, or in advance for those who celebrate it some other day. Happy Eruhantalë.
Completely off-topic, but this looks as though Orlando were about to do Kata Jion. This is the very first movement. Argh, it's following me.
- - -
Da meine Großmutter väterlicherseits vor zehn Jahren gestorben ist und die väterliche Seite meiner Familie katholisch ist, mussten wir heute zum Gedenkgottesdienst. Argh. Die Kirche von Wegberg ist sehr schön, jetzt wo sie die mittelalterlichen Wandmalereien und Dekorationen restauriert haben, aber das hatte leider überhaupt keine Auswirkungen auf den Gottesdienst. Es war unerträglich langweilig - irgendwas von wegen Scheidungen sind böse wegen Adam und Eva und blah, blah. Dieser Gottesdienst ist gewidmet unserer lieben Verstorbenen, und ach ja, Erntedankfest ist heute auch.
Ich mag das Erntedankfest. Es ist irgendwie sehr... pur, nicht so wie die meisten anderen Feiertage. Es gibt keinen ideologischen Hintergrund Marke "Der oder der Heilige starb heute, oder laut der Bibel ist heute dies oder das passiert". Einfach bloß der Wunsch des Menschens, irgendjemandem für den Erfolg der Ernte, die Früchte der eigenen Arbeit zu danken. Es ist ziemlich interkulturell, and es ist halt einfach natürlich. Auch als Nicht-Christ kann man durchaus verstehen, warum Erntedank gefeiert wird (außer für einen Atheisten, für den ist es natürlich sinnlos). Im Kindergarten haben wir immer für Erntedank gebastelt und durften beim Gottesdienst helfen, indem wir Gedichte oder sowas auswendig lernten oder Obst gesammelt haben. Das habe ich damals geliebt, und auch später fand ich den Obst- und Getreide-dekorierten Altar immer toll.
Merkwürdig finde ich bloß die Terminsache - manche feiern's im September, Mabon z.B., seltsamerweise haben die US-Amerikaner, die Kanadier und die Briten jeweils einen eigenen Termin, und hierzulande ist es der erste Oktobersonntag.
Jedenfalls.
Ich liebe also Erntedank, und ich begreife einfach nicht, warum der Priester das nicht als Aufhänger gewählt hat, statt irgendwelchen dogmatischen katholischen Krams über Heirat und Scheidung. Dann hat er auch noch seinen Text vergessen, und der Orgelspieler hat mehrmals ziemlich hörbar danebengegriffen, und die Leute haben auf diese leiernde "Vater-unser-im-Himmel-wir-sind-die-Borg-Widerstand-ist-zwecklos-Amen"-Art geredet und gesungen, ohne jeden Enthusiasmus. *sfz* Und ich werde niemals dieses komplizierte Austeh-Knie-und-Sitz-System verstehen. Wie ein Aerobic-Kurs in Zeitlupe. Wie ich Martin Luther verstehe.
Wenn wenigstens die Gläubigen etwas enthusiastischer gewesen wären - wenn wenigstens der Priester enthusiastischer und mitreißender gewesen wäre! Evangelische Pfarrer müssen wenigstens Rhetorikkurse besuchen, aber auf Katholiken trifft das offensichtlich nicht zu. Und manche Lieder hatten unglaublich alberne Texte. Es war echt schwer, ernst zu bleiben, und das wollte ich ja, weil ich ja schließlich niemanden verletzen wollte.
Was auch immer.
Ein schönes Erntedankfest den Deutschen, oder im Voraus auch denen, die es wann anders feiern. Fröhliches Eruhantalë.
Völlig anderes Thema: Das sieht so aus, als ob Orlando gerade die Kata Jion angefangen hätte. Das ist nämlich das Jion-Yoi. Sie verfolgt mich!
Und Jörg hat den Köln-Marathon überstanden und geschafft. Wusste ich doch. Herzlichen Glückwunsch *wink*
- - -
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Well, it's a different tradition in this country (the USA) of course, but I think there's plenty of point to it even for an atheist. I mean, one can always be thankful to the people around one, and grateful without a source target -- I mean, I for example am grateful to have a roof over my head. It's not because of divine intervention, it's because I searched for apartments all summer and earned my money (or this year, borrowed it) to pay the rent. Nonetheless, I'm thankful for it, you know?
I kind of understand with you on the Catholicism thing. My mother's family are all Catholics (she left for a Protestant church when she grew up), and my grandfather's funeral this past year was the first time in 8 years I've been in a Catholic church (my father's family are Jewish; I was raised to make my own decisions on religion). It was all too ritualistic and, I don't know, pointy. My aunt had to keep telling me when to stand, sit, kneel, pirouette, whatever. And the priest there didn't seem to care much about what he was doing, either.
By the way, have I ever mentiond: I love that you do bilingual entries! I feel like I'm learning German. Very slowly. One post at a time. ;)
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I love the bilingual entries too! Especially since I'm trying to teach myself German. :D
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Your mother had to convert? My mother is Protestant but my father is Catholic, and that never was a problem. Likewise, my uncle Gerd is Protestant (he's my mother's brother) but his wife is Catholic, and they could marry without either converting. Hm. Though I guess these days the church would look after that more, now with all that new anti-oicumenical stuff...
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I suppose we've always been fascinated by the... psychology of being able to speak more than one language, you could say, because we've never been able to do it. We took four years of Spanish in high school but never got to use it in a real-world, practical context (partly we were so afraid of messing up and really embarassing ourselves), and we know a bit of Japanese and Mandarin (languages, especially Asian languages, are one of ^Ruka's hobbies), but... as I said before, I guess none of our secondary languages have really 'taken' because we had no reason to speak them outside of our studies and no one to speak to them in about everyday matters. Though I wonder if I could persuade Ruka to put German on the agenda, heh...
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Yeah, I know about being afraid to mess up... I took four and a half years of French in school but forgot most of it because I never applied it. And by now, I don't dare starting again because... well, I forgot so much. And Latin, well, who are you supposed to talk to in Latin...
But I'm learning Japanese now... although I'm not good at it, as it is. I tried Chinese in school, too, but I had real problems with the stresses, the "melody" of the language...
But at least there's English. ;)
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Maybe a dumb question: But do you have turkey on Thanksgiving in Germany? What usually makes up the feast?
Oh, and one last thought: Once we had an organist who I swear must have played organ at baseball games! After he would play my brother and I would whisper to each other, "Charge!"
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Yes, it is indeed more of a religious than a historical thing over here. But no, we don't necessarily have turkey on Thanksgiving. There is no special, traditional Thanksgiving meal at all - you just eat a fine Sunday meal, or not even that, it really depends.
It's possible that the mass is more religious... "hardcore" closer to the Vatikan, as you said, after all, they're even more extreme in Italy and Spain, and parts of France... or maybe it's just that Catholicism is so old here, it's existed for over a thousand years so I suppose it has kind of digged deeper.
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So glad I'm pagan. :D
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(Anonymous) 2003-10-07 03:33 am (UTC)(link)Nein ernsthaft, ich musste EsD nie in die Kirche, obwohl ich die Bauwerke an sich hochinteressant finde. Aber dienstlich musste ich einmal in einen katholischen Gottesdienst. So was selten weltfremdes hab ich noch nie gesehen bzw gehört. Was einem da an Ungerechtigkeiten aufgetischt wurde, spottet jeder Beschreibung. Und keinen hat es gestört!!
Ich reg mich schon wieder auf....
-F-
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Zweifelsohne. Aber da ich ja, wie oben erwähnt, niemanden verletzen wollte, ging das ja nun schlecht.
Ja, ich erinnere mich, du hattest da was von Salomo erzählt...
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*giggles* Yeah, that's about the size of it. I've always personally felt uncomfortable at church services because although I feel as if we're reaching out to... the same mystery, the same sense of the divine, I'm being told I HAVE to accept it through a constrained framework of "You must do this and this and not this and otherwise you go to hell." also, there's my whole problem with the idea of revealed doctrine... We have to attend church services sometimes with our mother's family, who are very traditional Irish Catholics, and most of ^us aren't Catholic at all, so we try to keep a straight face for the same reason-- not wanting to offend anyone and all.
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I used to go to church quite often when I was younger, since my mother is really religious, but it was Protestant church, and somehow people were more enthusiastic and seemed to care more. Maybe that's because it's younger, or because there is no Hell in Protestantism. It's still narrow enough, but not quite as much...
Although I'm still glad I'm free of that now...
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