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olorielOne of
My first reaction is a snicker, because one of the many things I associate with Middle-earth (and the many other, hm, heavily Tolkien-inspired fantasy scenarios) comes from LARP, where fantasy concepts are clearly not medieval (in that you don't have to research authentic costume, materials etc.) So in a way, that's that piece of fanon (if it properly exists) contradicted. Case closed.
Of course, there are people who go dressed as Dúnedain rangers to "Medieval Markets" (our equivalent of RenFaire, and equally, hm, creatively anachronistic). And actually, they look better than many of the "historically correct" traders and visitors (two words: Leonardo. Carbone.). But they know they're Rangers Of Ithilien Based On PJ's Adaptation Of Tolkien's Writing. It's not like they say "we're totally authentic medieval".
I mean, what's "medieval" anyway? When the medievals said "Middle Ages", they meant anything between the First and Second Coming of Christ, by which logic we're still living in the Middle Ages today. By the same logic, we're still living in Middle-earth, because we're neither up with the gods nor down with the demons to the best of my knowledge. Meanwhile, the "Middle-earth" of Tolkien's writings is thus cleanly set outside the Middle Ages, because it's very clearly BCE. (Of course, the Middle-earthlings might say they're living in the Middle Ages between the First and Second Ainulindalë, or between the destruction and the rekindling of the Trees...)
So what's up with the "Middle-earth = Middle Ages" fanon? Is there some sort of consensus in that direction? I have not exactly come across it. But then, I mostly move in an extremely smart, extremely tolerant, extremely heretic corner of fandom (namely, the SWG). I may get a question like "Oranges? In BELERIAND?!" on occasion, but when I reply something like "The Noldor could've brought any plant from Valinor, and I'm sure someone like Curufin could come up with the idea of a greenhouse", that's settled.
But only recently I was talking to someone on someone else's journal, and she said "I write my Elves too modern anyway - they have cheese. And indoor plumbing." (Which made me go "MODERN? The Minoans had indoor plumbing!")
So I'll venture to guess that in less tolerant corners of the fandom, where the self-proclaimed Protectors of the Canon go around shooting down (hah!) authors who don't subscribe to their narrow view of things ("But Tolkien wouldn't have *~approved~* of that!" "But Fingolfin was *~blond~*!"), such a fanon exists. Including the banning of technology freely available to the ancients but not, perhaps, to the Medievals-in-our-modern-sense. Such as indoor plumbing. I have no idea what's up with the cheese. They had cheese in the "Middle Ages". UNSPOILT milk, now that was a problem if you didn't have a cow around the corner - which is why, when period recipes call for milk, they often mean nut "milk", or so I've been told - but cheese?
Oh well.
As usual, then, these Protectors of the Canon would be sadly under-informed, because if you look at the peoples of Middle-earth (no, not the book), you'll actually find very little genuinely "medieval" material. The only clearly "medieval" group is that of the Rohirrim, whose culture is of course based on that of the Anglo-Saxons, which is why their language has been "translated" into Anglo-Saxon in the books, which is why now everyone thinks that Rohirric = Anglo-Saxon, but that's another rant for another day.
In the LotR movies, Gondor is also depicted in more or less Gothic terms, but that is mostly PJ's (or his costume, make-up and set designers') interpretation. As the descendants of the Númenoreans (who, with their triconsonantal word bases, their fascination with embalming and their general Atlantis-ness, are meant to invoke Ancient Egypt), the Gondorians aren't really all that close to our image of the "Middle Ages". In fact, in a letter which I'd go hunting for if this were more than a ramble, Tolkien compared the early ex-Númenorean kingdoms in Middle-earth - Arnor in the North and Gondor in the South - to Upper and Lower Egypt -- so much for "medieval". In another letter (paraphrased because I'm again too lazy to get up and find it), he advises an illustrator that "the Gondorians are best pictured in Ancient Greek or Roman terms, but with breeches". Again, so much for "medieval".
And what's with the other peoples of Middle-earth? The Elves are hard to place. Neither the stories of the Kalevala nor of the Mabinogion can (as far as I know) be placed in any "real" historical time. But the roots of the Mabinogion are (I believe?) pre-medieval. Nobody knows just how old the stories of the Kalevala are because they've only been orally transmitted until the 19th century, but the style is (according to wiki - shut up) 2500-3000 years old. I think it's safe to say they belong to the mythological past. In the movies, they've been depicted in art nouveau terms minus the technology of the late 19th/early 20th century, so even that can't have inspired the "medieval" consensus - such as there may be.
The Dwarves are even harder to place. The Orcs are pretty timeless - you've always had individuals who enjoyed destruction for destruction's sake, I'll venture, but never exactly whole peoples (though of course the Romans may have thought that of the Vandals, or the Rus of the Tartars, or the like!).
And the Hobbits? They have potatoes. And umbrellas. Hint: Not "medieval". (I think they're supposed to be mostly Regency-without-the-regency, but I'm not a Hobbit scholar.)
In short: We're looking at a colourful mix of influences and historical inspirations. If a "Middle-Earth = Middle Ages" fanon genuinely exists, it's bullshit. Or, more gently put, it has no basis in either canon nor logic. Of course, everyone is free to depict their personal version of the Elves and Gondorians and Hobbits and what-have-yous in whatever terms they desire. But they can't expect everyone to subscribe to the same set of rules, and shouldn't.
Now I crave me some steampunk Valinor fanfic. Anyone seen such a thing recently? Link me? (Please do, before I have to write it myself. >_>)
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Date: 2012-03-09 10:43 am (UTC)Je länger ich in der Szene herumschnuppere, desto eher fallen mir Kriterien wie 'Mühe' und 'Sorgfalt' auf. Und das hat keinerlei Genre-Grenzen.
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Date: 2012-03-10 05:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-09 10:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-09 11:47 am (UTC)This always makes me shake my head and I then think: you better get your facts straight before such nonsense is uttered and feelings of writers are hurt by such statements of a 'canatic'.
Have fun writing steampunk! :D
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Date: 2012-03-10 05:16 pm (UTC)And because they're so vocal and so brutal, young (that is, new to the fandom) writers may be misled to think that they really speak the gospel truth. :P Which is why this "Fanon" card is a great thing! I just never came across this particular fanon, personally. That's what I get for being selective about my fannish platforms, I guess. (Oh wait. I don't regret that one bit.)
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Date: 2012-03-09 12:25 pm (UTC)This is why I love watching History Channel and NatGeo -- they often show "tech-oriented" episodes of "what was possible in the "middle ages" and compare it to more modern times. I especially remember one show where they compared a modern sailboat to a "middle age" one made of wood and built in a historically accurate manner (its sails were made of boiled wool, iirc) in a race. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the modern boat was not that much faster -- only a second or two. [g]
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Date: 2012-03-10 05:19 pm (UTC)I suspect most of the people who go around thinking people couldn't have done this or that in the past wouldn't even understand some of the technologies that the ancients actually did have...
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Date: 2012-03-09 08:38 pm (UTC)But only recently I was talking to someone on someone else's journal, and she said "I write my Elves too modern anyway - they have cheese. And indoor plumbing." (Which made me go "MODERN? The Minoans had indoor plumbing!")
Basically my view, lol. I do tend to write of Elves living in Imladris for instance, or Tirion, or Lindon in the Second Age, as having indoor plumbing. Okay, not power-showers, but plumbing. As for the more exotic kinds of fruits, I'd go with the argument that some of the Noldor could have brought anything, and if they didn't have it, could find alternatives. When the Romans came to Britain, they planted vineyards, and although the UK is not famous for wine, they wanted wine, so they found places to plant vines, and if they were not great vintages, they served. (Besides, I know you can make lovely wine out of elderberries, blackberries, even parsnips! so...)
Also people seem to forget trade, and how important it was even in the ancient world. Every place had something to offer another. Tyre was trading with Cornwall in pre Christian times for tin, hence the legend that Jesus traveled with Joseph of Aramathea there as a child, and that Joseph came to Glastonbury. A lot of wealth apparently passed through Caranthir's lands from the Dwarves, and I'd imagine they traded with people further east still. Look at the Silk Road, and Chinese silk worn by the Romans. Trade is a fascinating subject. Irish gold has been found in Istanbul -- that's just one example. Trade is essentially: You have something I need, and I have something you need, let's do business. It didn't matter if the people were friendly or not; it still went on.
The Mabinogion, I think is very old, but passed down orally before being written, and what I've read has no real 'feeling' of being Medieval. It seems older, a mythical time.
I tend to think about trade, and how things got where, and if they'd grow in a different climate etc. I wouldn't have Elves drinking coffee and eating chocolate in Imladris, just because I do like to keep to an 'antique' feel. I wouldn't have fridges either; I have icehouses, lamps, not electric bulbs. But that's a personal preference, as are breeches and boots, bliauts and cloaks -- and no zips. It's not really Medieval, but a choice of things that I like, and think would be possible considering the people, their history, and the time in Middle-earth when I am writing.
But yes, people who say Middle-earth is Medieval, probably don't know what they're talking about, and I doubt they know very much about history.
Edit:
And also, I subscribe to the IDGAF school of thought, and write exactly what I want to. d;-)
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Date: 2012-03-10 05:12 pm (UTC)Trade and other ways of business/taking care of everyday needs aren't sufficiently looked at in most fanfic, anyway - I think. (Which is why I made an "Economy" card for this event, just to get people to write/think about these topics. I AM SO SUBTLE. ;))
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Date: 2012-03-10 07:18 pm (UTC)I like it!
Trade and other ways of business/taking care of everyday needs aren't sufficiently looked at in most fanfic, anyway - I think.
Well, the better authors do cover those things, I think, but the majority of fics don't, I agree. Maybe they think it's too mundane, but it's not; it's really interesting.
Tolkien does not mention it much either, but one can infer a lot. We know Mordor was not entirely a volcanic desert, because of the slave farms round the sea of Nurnen. The Dwarves settled where there were ores and minerals, I assume, and the Noldor used steel weapons, so they must have found deposits of iron etc in places where they settled, or traded one another for certain things.
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Date: 2012-03-11 03:29 pm (UTC)Fair enough - often it's just implicit. And that's ok - often the focus of the story is elsewhere. But hey, sometimes it's just fascinating to think about what trade agreements etc. may have been there, and who got what from where by what means. The Dwarves won't have built that road just for the sake of getting rid of their excess stone and gravel, for instance! ;)
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Date: 2012-03-11 03:55 pm (UTC)Yes, I think it is. Sometimes I'll be writing and my mind goes off on that road to the ends of the earth. If you wanted, for instance something that comes in a particular location, like frankincense or sandalwood, I imagine how it might get to the north and west of the world. (Leaving aside Valinor, which apparently had everything, and quite likely Númenor, too.)
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Date: 2012-03-12 10:24 am (UTC)On the other hand, I grant them rice and cotton and olives and other things that (e.g.) Beleriand would lack. As for "exotic" things, well, those Venturers must have had purposes beyond pissing off their wives with their lengthy sailing trips... ;)
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Date: 2012-03-09 09:28 pm (UTC)I don't know any Valinor steampunk--although assorted interesting pieces of technology have cropped up in 4th Age Valinor as written by Pande and Indy. But Dreamflower has written a sort of space steampunk version of the Shire...
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Date: 2012-03-10 05:09 pm (UTC)But yeah, maybe it's some "too noble for that" thing. (Dude. They hunt. THEY KILL ANIMALS. Stealing milk is just the beginning!)
Eh, ATM I don't have much reading time anyway... I'll look into it after B2MeM though! :) Shire space steampunk sounds like a good replacement for Valinor, at any rate.