Computus paschalis

[oloriel]

So I've been wondering why we have to wait until mid-April for our Spring Break (the students need it! we teachers need it, too!). If Spring began on the 20th and there's a full moon on the 21st, there is no logical reason for why Easter can't be celebrated on March 24th this year, which would mean that we already should've had one week of Spring Break, and darn, we all could've used it.

I still haven't wholly understood why mathematics and cyclical predictions are permitted to interfere with, like, actual reality? The full moon happened after Spring had officially begun, why do we have to wait until April 21, this makes no sense at all? But I have found out that there is actually a scientific term for this phenomenon in German, which is positive Äquinoktialparadoxie (positive equinoctial paradox), which sounds every bit as absurd as it should - almost like some kind of bullshit technobabble from a time-travelling story. I'm still not reconciled with the long wait, but I hope I'll have many opportunities to use this delightful gem of a rare technical term, which almost makes up for it!

Comments

[grundyscribbling]

Positive equinoctial paradox? I'ma remember that one. Does this mean there is also a negative equinoctial paradox? (I can't seem to find anything about either in English. Google has failed me.)

Vokabel Frage aber - wird auf Deutsch ueblicherweise 'Paradox' oder 'Paradoxie' benutzt? Ich dachte das normale Wort war 'Paradox' also hatte ich 'Paradoxie' als englischen paradoxy verstanden. (Was mir eigentlich noch schoener vorkommt, denn man sieht paradoxy fast nie.)

[oloriel]

Apparently it might theoretically exist, but it hasn't happened yet and isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future? Yeah, I didn't find it in English either! And it's such a lovely term.

Man würde normalerweise Paradox sagen (oder Paradoxon, wenn man angeben möchte), aber ich wusste nicht, dass es auch paradoxy gibt! Was ist denn der Unterschied zwischen paradox und paradoxy?

[grundyscribbling]

I think I'm going to have to read up on these paradoxes! (Paradoxies?)

Ehrlich gesagt gibt es so gut wie keinen! Laut Merriam-Webster heisst paradoxy the quality or state of being paradoxical. Ich habe keine richtige Etymologie dafuer gefunden (leider ist 'paradoxy' kein gratis Wort, sondern im voll nur fuer Abonnenten.) Ich rate aber, dass paradoxy entstanden ist weil es orthodox und orthodoxy gibt- jemand dachte, es sollte ahnlicherweise paradox und paradoxy geben. (Aber im fall ortho- ist orthodox Adjectiv aber orthodoxy Substantiv. Bei parodox und paradoxy sind beide Substantive.)

[oloriel]

Aaah, der Duden sagt, "Paradox" ist der widersinnig erscheinende Sachverhalt an sich und "Paradoxie" ist die Verwunderung über den widersinnigen Sachverhalt. Das eine stammt von paradoxon ab und das andere von paradoxía. So wird's dann sicher auch mit den englischen Begriffen sein...

Wieder was gelernt! ^^

[grundyscribbling]

Wahrscheinlich!

Ich lerne jeden Tag was neues! :)

[ysilme]

(Paradoxies?)
Die würde ich aber eher in Schottland suchen und Madam Rowling dafür verantwortlich machen wollen. XD

[grundyscribbling]

XD
(Es wundert mich immer noch, dass sie in einem Kinderbuch 'doxy' nutzte!)

[oloriel]

*snicker*

[ysilme]

You need to keep in mind that Easter is really calculated to be on the Sunday after Passover, which takes place after the firt full moon in spring. I'm carefullly assuming here (hoping that this equals "vorsichtig vermuten") that the calculation for Passover could never cut short of a day here, since it also needs to work for the most conservative jewish denomination. Or they put in some fine print at that Nicene council back in '325 or so. XD
No, kidding aside, I'm sure there's a nifty rule from what point onwards the moon is considered full - to judge by my sleeping problems, it definitely happened already on the 20th, so before the official beginning of spring.
Personally, I don't mind at all: Siljan is having his birthday so often happening on Easter Saturday, Sunday or Monday that it's nice to have the occasion well free of any family celebrations this year. (Of course, we do have our spring break hereabouts in the Faschingswoche, so teachers don't mind either, as having Easter break so soon after spring break isn't fun as well. They're using the bewgliche Ferientage for spring break as the catholic areas in the region are famous for celebrating carnival.)

[oloriel]

The definition is "the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox", though, without - alas - any reference to Passover.

However, they both use cyclical predictions rather than astronomical realities. Cyclically, the vernal equinox is always assumed to happen on March 21st at noon, even in years when it astronomically happens sometime on March 20st (as has been the case since 2012 and will be until 2099) - that's the cyclical prediction part.

Now, this year, the astronomical equinox was on March 20 at 22:58 CET, followed by a full moon on March 21 at 2:43 CET. So it has been spring for over three hours, and we could be dying our eggs now. BUT the cyclical equinox was 9 hours after the full moon, making it a winter moon and we all have to wait a month longer!

Yeah, I wish we had a carnival spring break, too. But even though we're reasonably close to major carnival hubs like Cologne and the Ruhr area, our region doesn't do anything about it; it was a miracle we got Rose Monday off!

(Of course, we do have our spring break hereabouts in the Faschingswoche, so teachers don't mind either, as having Easter break so soon after spring break isn't fun as well.

But... carnival is calculated according to the Easter date, because Ash Wednesday is by definition 40 days before Easter? So the distance between a carnival-based spring break and the Easter holidays never changes. The only thing that changes is the time passing between Christmas and carnival!

[ysilme]

My bad about the Faschingsferien. You're right, of course, about the calculating of Fasching; I mixed it up with an attempt to space out spring break between Christmas and Easter holidays when Easter is very early in the year, and then not scheduling the spring breakt at Fasching. I don't remember if this was recent or not - as my parents were teachers and now my sisters have school age kids, and there's literally always somebody of my family been at school and affected by the holidays during my whole life. Since my birthday often falls on Fasching we're having the celebration issue on that date as well. *g*
About Easter: I'd been taught that Easter is dependant on Passover first at confirmation class, later at school, and even later at uni (Christliche Archäologie, one of my minors), and I'd swear also during my short stint at the Jewish college ("Hochschule"), although I wouldn't rule out a slightly non-christian-tinted viewpoint at the latter. I also was totally convinced that they fixed this as a given at the Nicean council, so I must remember that wrongly.

[oloriel]

They did fix the "equinox on the 21st of March" thing at the Nicean council, modelled after the Passover calculations - is how I understood it. So Passover does influence the date, but there's no requirement that it has to happen first or anything. Since they're both using the same planet, the same moon and the same cyclical definition of Spring in their calculations, they naturally happen more or less at the same time! So this is probably where we lost each other, meaning the same thing but expressing it differently. *g*

[hhimring]

As I understood it, in the Easter calculations Passover is a bit like the elephant in the room. The Easter calculations are originally modelled on the Passover calculations, with an extra step to ensure that the two don't exactly coincide. But the calculation is conventionally formulated without reference to Passover.

[hhimring]

Passover is also in April this year, so this doesn't seem to be just a Christian thing.

I guess Easter calculation was complicated enough, in the old days, without the benefit of the internet or (often) astronomical equipment, so the Church just went with 21 March as the date by which the equinox would definitely have happened.

[oloriel]

Yeah, they both use the 21st as a fixed time for the equinox, no matter when it actually happens astronomically! That's basically how the paradoxon happens.

[independence1776]

Huh. Something to look up. All I know is that we have leap months (we're in one this year) to make Passover fall in the proper season. Didn't realize it was probably because of a set date for the equinox.

[oloriel]

Yeah, there are all kinds of things one has to keep in mind with a lunar calendar, I guess! (Fickle Tilion!)