oloriel: (tolkien - not nice but true)
[personal profile] oloriel


[livejournal.com profile] dawn_felagund has summed up pretty much exactly what I think about the topic, so I am - hurrah! - no longer feeling the need to put my thoughts into words. I'll merely quote her:

Let's be frank, folks. If critique of a policy, no matter how heated, was what caused a fandom institution to close its doors, then it wasn't long for the world anyway. I say this as an admin and, again, with the recognition that you have to expect these kinds of problems, and you either deal or you don't. There's certainly nothing wrong with reaching the point where you can't or won't deal anymore, but pretending like an otherwise healthy and thriving fandom institution came suddenly crashing to the ground because of a critique over a ratings policy would be laughably ridiculous if I hadn't seen so much finger-pointing to this effect.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. Signed a dozen times.
(Her full, thoughtful and intelligent entry can be found here. It says everything I might want to say on the matter - only better, and providing background explanation I wouldn't even have thought of.)

(Actually, I might want to say more on the matter, but that would leave the territory of reasonable and diplomatic discourse. So I shall hold my tongue. Unless anything comes up in the comments to this entry here, of course. ;))

Date: 2012-07-08 11:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] satismagic.livejournal.com
I'm still horrified at how much hatred got launched at the volunteers over a matter that could easily have been resolved.

Date: 2012-07-10 07:52 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (tolkien - tell them I ain't coming back)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
It's upsetting, yes, but not all that surprising. Everything we do in the fandom is a work of love - as Dawn put it, many of us consider some corner of the fandom or other their online home - so any change feels like a big thing. If, then, people are concerned about something and feel that their initial attempts to "resolve" things are getting ignored, brushed aside or downright scorned - for whatever reason; I'm talking about feelings here, after all, not about facts - tempers quickly run high... then the first alerts show up on fandom_wank, and then the tourists and trolls get in.

Frankly, though, I don't think the matter could have been easily resolved - not this year, not under the given circumstances. If there had been an easy resolution, things wouldn't have gotten out of control so fast.

This isn't to justify the anonymous attacks etc. - just to explain that the way I understood it, matters were rather more complicated.

Date: 2012-07-08 02:24 pm (UTC)
dawn_felagund: (can of worms)
From: [personal profile] dawn_felagund
Thank you, Lyra, for linking to my post--and I'm glad it resonated with you! :) I almost didn't post it. I'm glad I did.

Date: 2012-07-10 07:55 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (tolkien - stubborn)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
Thank YOU (again) for posting it. I attempted to write up my feelings on the matter several times, mostly driftinng into petty insults at some point and thus discarding the whole thing. Your entry was like everything I might've wanted to say minus the nasty stuff. What a relief! ^^

Date: 2012-07-08 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allamistako.livejournal.com
So, for the poor clueless follower of your journal - MEFAs?

Date: 2012-07-08 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] degu-aus-stahl.livejournal.com
Das würde ich auch gerne wissen :)

Date: 2012-07-10 08:10 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (lotr - Fëanor invented the internets.)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
Cf. my reply to [livejournal.com profile] allamistako's question (http://oloriel.livejournal.com/486099.html?thread=2714067#t2714067) :)

Date: 2012-07-10 08:09 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (lotr - Fëanor invented the internets.)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
Siehe meine Antwort auf [livejournal.com profile] allamistako's Frage (http://oloriel.livejournal.com/486099.html?thread=2714067#t2714067) :)

Date: 2012-07-10 08:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chili-das-schaf.livejournal.com
Danke. "Inattentive" weniger als "das was mich nicht interessiert, überspringe ich und muss dann halt nach Bedarf doof nachfragen" ;)

Date: 2012-07-10 08:58 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (lotr - Fëanor invented the internets.)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
Das "inattentive" bezog sich auch mehr auf [livejournal.com profile] allamistako's "clueless follower" und nicht auf euch andere. Meistens schreibe ich bei Fandom-Themen ja extra noch dran, "wer's nicht wissen will, ignoriere es einfach"... ^^

Date: 2012-07-10 09:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chili-das-schaf.livejournal.com
Hab mich mal durchgeklickt, meine Herren ...und ich dachte immer, das Tolkien-Fandom wär so vernünftig und akademisch. Aber ich weiß ja inzwischen, dass es selbst unter den Strickern Drama gibt.

Date: 2012-07-10 09:11 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (Uni - long live the common formula)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
Hey, unter den Akademikern gibt's doch überhaupt das größte Drama. "Wie, ihr glaubt immer noch an die Universalgrammtik? KETZER!" - "Wie mein gelehrter Kollege so naiv anmerkte..."

(Passt übrigens prima zum Tolkien-Fandom. Das allergrößte Drama im Tolkienversum fing damit an, dass ein Teil der Noldor (das Elbenvolk, dem z.B. Galadriel angehört) anfingen, das "th" wie "s" auszusprechen.... XD)

Date: 2012-07-10 08:08 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (tolkien - mefa nominee)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
Inattentive follower? ;)
The MEFAs (Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards) are them fandom awards I've (http://oloriel.livejournal.com/404677.html) been (http://oloriel.livejournal.com/437392.html) participating (http://oloriel.livejournal.com/457553.html) in (http://oloriel.livejournal.com/470739.html) the past three years.

This year, first the usual awards seasons got postponed; then, shortly before the nomination season started, a new ratings system was introduced. It was (I think) supposed to make matters clearer and easier to navigate, but came with a long and somewhat daunting set of guidelines. I can get into more detail if you want, but for now suffice it to say that not only did the new ratings system appear to complicate matters terribly, it also appeared that it particularly made life hard for writers of smutty (but not Adult, which was never allowed in the MEFAs anyway) fanfic. So people argued and rallied and voiced their concerns, to which there was little to no response (because the responsible mods didn't have time to deal with it, apparently, but you know how things go on the internet). Then there was an open letter, summing up the main concerns and designed to spare the mods from having to read through heaps of internet discussion, which was allegedly considered condescending and hostile by the mods and other parts of the fandom (many of those who don't write smutty fanfic, for instance). Et voilà, shitstorm. Trolls got in and allegedly anonymously attacked one of the mods on personal grounds, at which point the mods decided it wasn't worth the hassle and shut the MEFAs down. Initially there was a choice of "end it right now" and "end it after this year's awards", but when technical problems popped up on top of everything else, that was the death blow.

NOW, of course, some people can't seem to differentiate between "people who raised concerns publicly and under their own (LJ) names" and "anonymous trolls", nor between "mods were under pressure anyway and that was just the final straw" and "you critics have destroyed the best fanfic awards ever"...

There you go, two weeks of fandom trouble summed up in five minutes ;)

Date: 2012-07-08 04:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enismirdal.livejournal.com
Wow. Just goes to show how utterly out of the loop I am that I had no clue any of this was happening. Quite a few years now I took the decision to stay well out of all fanfiction awards schemes - most of them were founded with the best intentions, and in the end the awarding of prizes based on merit is going to be contentious, as who can define "merit", but most of them seemed to be far too stressful and controversial regardless of the system. It's meant I've been rather oblivious to the rise and fall of fanfic awards ever since.

It's a pity the MEFAs, which I generally felt were a pretty good scheme, went down the chute. :(

Date: 2012-07-10 08:14 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (tolkien - tell them I ain't coming back)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
It is. I loved that they awarded points based on reviews (which we all love to get, after all ;)) rather than a narrow jury's choice - while (of course) I felt tickled by receiving a few MEFAs, the best thing was the publicity brought on by a nomination! :D

On the plus side, there are efforts right now to start a new awards scheme similar to the MEFAs but more inclusive (both of adult stuff, and possibly of fan art, vids and other fannish activities rather than just fanfic). I'm just hoping they stick with the "review" system of placing pieces. ^^

Date: 2012-07-08 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jokergirl.livejournal.com
I saw that announcement they were closing and the poll linked from Deviantart, but none of the discussion that led up to it.
Am I right in getting the impression that the organisers were already tired/divided before that and that was just the straw that broke the camel's back with much drama involved?

Date: 2012-07-10 08:14 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (firefly - define interesting.)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
That pretty much sums it up, I think, yes.

Date: 2012-07-08 06:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heartofoshun.livejournal.com
Thanks for linking to Dawn's post.

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