Aug. 7th, 2004

oloriel: (unhappy)
I know that most people cannot understand my deep love for words, and my deep conviction that it is at all important what words mean, meant or are supposed to mean, where words came from and what can be concluded from their origin. I know most people consider linguistics boring and writing style trivial, and I know that especially the internet is for many people a place where you can write just the way you want where there is no need to make sure that the readers understand what is meant. I'm not even talking about USING CAPS LOCK ALL THE TIME, using exaggerated amounts of exclamation marks!!! or ignoring all teh rulz of orthography, but about plain old making your meaning clear.

Words, me hearties, have power. Words have power in themselves, but they have even more power in application between people. Words can manipulate people. Words can mislead people.

...
Dear Wolvie,
This is a bad way to word a post in which you wish to convince one group of people to welcome another group of people to a meeting of the firstmentioned group of people:
"Um well, how can I break this to you???? Soooo, some of my colleagues think that the idea of having a party in a castle is great, but they can't come the whole weekend so they had the brilliant idea to come over with some crates of beer on Saturday to party with us!!! Should I dissuade them or would it be ok??? I warned them that they'd have to sleep in their cars or with air matresses and sleeping-bags in the main hall!!!! I'd like to add that this wasn't my idea!!!!"

In the best of cases, everyone will say something in the line of "Well, ok, but are you sure they'll be able to deal with a bunch of geeks like us?" or "Well sure, but wouldn't it make more sense if they slept in the huts and paid for that one night?". Which is what they did. Which is extremely positive considering that your post sounded like even you didn't like the idea very much.
(And you got hesitant encouragement, after all. For the sake of completeness, I should add that you could also have received answers like "I don't think it would never work, so I'd rather not have them". Because, you know, even if your colleagues are really nice people, many nice people who would like partying in a castle still would not like partying in a castle full of dressed-up geeks talking fantasy. It might have resulted in an awkward evening both for us and for them.)

I think I'm not going to far when I say that no one was able to understand that post as
"Guys, I've got great news! I found some more people who want to come along to Veldenz! They're four of my colleagues, and they're all really nice. I've shown them photos of the last meetings, and they said at once they'd love to be there too - they even plan to get costumes for it! Unfortunately, they can't come all weekend; but they'd like to come over on Saturday with some beer to party along. They're even willing to sleep in their cars, or bring sleeping-bags to spend the night in the main hall. I think they'd be a great addition to our group. So, what do you say?"

That would not only have made clear that you want them to come; it would also have made clear that it's at least likely they'll actually have fun among geeks like us, and that it would be great to have them there.
Maybe you think we should all trust you enough to know that you'd never ask us to welcome people who wouldn't fit in. But, you know, just for the sake of clarity, it would have helped to make us know they'd fit in. Because, as far as I know, none of us are clairvoyant. Some of us are mistrustful anyway. And the few of us who try to pick up the meaning behind the post would have been completely misled by your choice of words. I know that's bound to happen on the internet where you can't see people's mimics and gestures and can't hear their tone of voice, which is why it's bullshit to think that language matters less on the internet. Where written language is the only means to communicate, every damn word counts. I know that because I keep sending misleading signals and getting into trouble for it. It happens. To everyone. But if it happens, understand that no one wants to misunderstand you.

And, for fuck's sake, IF people reply with hesitant encouragement, I don't know why you think we mean "We don't want to meet your friends and we don't want to meet you either." I also don't understand why you think the only wise move is to tell us NOW how great these people are and that they already were looking for costumes and that they were only four, anyway and that you told them we are all elitary assholes who don't want them and you didn't know we'd need clearance certificates for them and you won't come to Veldenz now, either.

Reconsider?

Sincerely,
Lyra who admittedly is a linguistic smart ass but knows why, and who also likes you and would be very sad if a stupid misunderstanding like this would mean The Breaking of the Fellowship, Episode III.
...

Really. I don't know what it is. I belong to two groups of crazy LOTR fans. The one is the ancient Elbenwald fellowship, which met first in September 2001 (yes, BEFORE the first film, and, for that matter, BEFORE 9/11, but we've got nothing to do with that.) and got its own forum and still meets a few times a year. Strangely, there has never been any drama that threatened to completely destroy the group and rip friendships apart in those almost three years.
The second one is the North Rhine-Westphalian fellowship, which I entered into in April 2003, which got its own forum and still meets a few times a year. Since then, there have been TWO MAJOR DRAMAS (and there was at least one before that), and this threatens to be the THIRD. In one and a half years. You know. Just because of stupidly chosen words. Mark ye, words have power. Think about that, and think about them carefully.

I should consider becoming a teacher after all.
If I weren't so impatient, and so afraid of talking in front of people.

- - -
Worte. Worte. Worte. )
- - -

cont.

Aug. 7th, 2004 08:40 pm
oloriel: (touch a cloud)
I grew up in the belief that discussions were, basically, a good thing. At least, if they were done calmly, tolerantly, fair, they were. Discussions turning into massive arguments maybe were no longer a good thing; but discussing thoughts, I learned in philosophy class, is not only sensible but even necessary to learn and, maybe, to get a bit closer to the truth.

Many people claim to know the Truth.
If that be true, the Truth has multiple personalities. That is altogether possible, even likely.
Few people are aware that something contrary to what they hold true can still be just as true. Even fewer people are willing to admit it.

I don't know why in so many internet forums people have grown afraid of discussions.
I grew up in the belief that internet forums were, basically, for discussions. Contrary to what seems to be common practice, their original purpose was not sending *hugs* to other forum members for no reason whatsoever. It was not so one could look at bandwidth-killing pictures of Orlando Bloom and agree how cuuuuute he looks. It was not so one could throw insults all around because one was anonymous and could do all one didn't dare to do in RL.
The original purpose was discussion. That's why they're called forum. The word comes, as so many, from Latin, where it was a gathering and market place. A place in which people met and talked, exchanged rumours and news, and - discussed. Discussions made it possible to look at problems from different angles, to reject and to validate opinions, and, above all, to learn from each other.

If you join a forum just to talk about rumours, or to have an internet database to meet your friends, that's all fine and good.
But if you post your opinion there, you must expect it to be challenged. That doesn't mean that the challenger doesn't respect your opinion. It means that they have more or different thoughts on the topic. It doesn't even mean that the challenger wants to convert you to their opinion, although the goal of discussion is consensus. It means that they want to state their opinion, too, and maybe they use your previous post to illustrate their own, or to order them. As long as they remain rational, there is no reason to add to any and all posts, "This is my opinion and I don't want you to take it apart or discuss about it with me."
If you do this once in a while, I will understand and try to be considerate. Sometimes, I don't want to discuss things either, but I want to voice my opinion anyway. I'll let people discuss it, if they wish, but keep out of it myself.
If you do this every time, I will not understand. If you are unwilling to talk about your opinion, don't make it public. Keep it to yourself, and no one will ever take it apart or discuss about it. Or, if you make it public, do so on your own page, your LJ, whatever. But if you go to a forum, expect reactions.
If you do this every time, I will assume that you take yourself too seriously, or that you are unable to cope with other people's thoughts. Either way, you will lose some of my esteem.

Discussion doesn't necessarily mean that I don't agree with your opinion. Maybe I do agree. Maybe I don't agree. Maybe I want to explore our shared opinion. Maybe I'm playing the devil's advocate just for the heck of it.
Discussion doesn't mean I'm not your friend anymore, or that I want to attack you.

If you ask a question, expect people to answer. (One should think that this is the point of asking a question.) If the question is unclear, expect them to ask for more information. If their answers aren't what you wanted, don't think people do this in your spite. Clarify your point; wait until the others have clarified their own points. I will understand if you get angry when you are misunderstood, or misinterpreted; but allow me to explain how it happened, or what I meant by my answer, and let's see whether we can't clear things up.
That is discussion, too.

If everybody has the same opinion, that is no garant for harmony.
If everybody has a different opinion, that doesn't necessarily mean disharmony.
If everybody has a different opinion and nobody is willing to discuss, i.e. think about their own and others' opinions, then we have a problem. Then we will keep talking at cross-purposes.

Discussions are healthy. Arguments can be healthy, to, if they clear things up.
Withdrawing as soon as one doesn't get one's way immediately is not healthy. Nor is it wise.

The path of least resistance is only in the beginning paved.

- - -
Forsetzung )
- - -
oloriel: (Default)
To end my celebration of words for today: I just finished reading [livejournal.com profile] applegnat's Vain Songs and... oh my goodness. I'm so overwhelmed it's not even pathetic anymore. I think I'm dying of beauty now. Oh my goodness. Nol, I worship you.

Other positive stuff:
-Drove my brother to the Schatzkammer, a store for LARP and medieval costumes in Cologne, yesterday. He's taking part in the Drachenfest, which is one massive LARP event in the Westerwald, and I'd have loved to go there too, but I don't have anyone to take care of the cats then. Anyway, my brother was still looking for some stuff - a light fencing shirt; a cloak; mead for his hosts. And, lo and behold, he bought a fencing shirt and elf ears for me! Just like that! Sometimes, I have the greatest brother imaginable.
(I suppose he bought the fencing shirt in the egoistic hope that I'll practice LARP swordsmanship in the garden with him, but still!)

-We had a wonderful thunderstorm earlier this afternoon. Now it's delightfully cool outside and it's smelling nicely of wet earth and leaves, which is a smell I love.

-Tomorrow I'll finally see my dearest again! And at the end of the week, he's coming back for good!
Which reminds me, gotta pack.

So, I'll be gone till Tuesday. You be good 'till I'm back!

- - -
Positiv denken, positiv denken! )
- - -

Profile

oloriel: (Default)
oloriel

April 2023

S M T W T F S
      1
2345678
9101112131415
161718192021 22
232425262728 29
30      

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Apr. 23rd, 2026 09:29 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios